Question: How can public education be enriched so that it can compete with private schools?

(Posted by: Vonnegut on 2010-07-21 22:47:39)

I ask this question as a point that private Christian schools will suffice for a public education, but without the mention of evolution in place of the fantasy of creation, in what ways can public schools be improved so that they are on the educational level of private schools? Do you think that if this can be achieved, the government should mandate that public education be a must, and not allow religious schools to corrupt the minds of the youth? The government does mandate that everyone must receive an education, and via the Establishment Clause, religious teachings of any kind are not permitted. How can we move the United States to complete secularism? Gumball, the idea of creationism is corrupt in its apparent delusional fallacy, to which it also denies the multitude of facts supporting evolution as an explanation for the propagation of life. No it does not make you stupid, and to say that religious people are more inclined to be morally upright than the nonreligious is a lie plain and simple. Trix, it would in no way demean any person's right to freedom of religion. The idea is simply not to impose religious doctrine on the youth in education. You can still teach your kids whatever religious tenets you choose, but it is the State's duty to see that every child receives a proper education. What you teach your kids beyond that, at home, or in Sunday school, etc. would be the decision of the parent. Let's also not forget that many children do not have freedom of religion. They are most often forced to believe what their parents believe and are not of an age where many parents will allow them to make their own decisions, so the parents make it for them.

Posted by: McKenzie on 2010-07-22, 17:20:26

Although I've heard the government is highly socialized, the educational system in Sweden is supposed to one of the best in the world. Apparently they don't teach reading until 2nd grade (it's something about corrupting students' childhood), but they have higher reading literacy rates than the US. Personally, I think that we should stop standardized testing (I just don't think it's really helping us), pay our teachers more, and introduce curriculum that is actually interesting because, frankly, I'm bored with school. I can come up with more ways to improve our public schools, but those are the most basic, I think.

Posted by: BADGER THE HORRIBLE!!! on 2010-07-21, 22:49:29

Creationism is a huge disservice to our children. It dumbs them down. Get rid of this creationism crap all the way around.

Posted by: xanzibar on 2010-07-21, 22:49:49

We need better teachers...

Posted by: duraan on 2010-07-21, 22:50:15

Tell me what you think of this youtube.com/ watch?v= 0vrpPPV_yPY &feature= related

Posted by: bayboy17 on 2010-07-21, 22:50:24

Private schools suck ass. they are garbage. You can get a better education at a public school.

Posted by: President Ookdork on 2010-07-21, 22:50:33

Have you heard how literally preschool esque the hymns are?

Posted by: The Wise Owl on 2010-07-21, 22:50:47

We could take advice from France, Japan, and Sweden. They seem to have figured it out.

Posted by: grossburggger on 2010-07-21, 22:51:59

Sorry charlie can't compete with Biff and Buffy

Posted by: HTacianas_II on 2010-07-21, 22:53:38

You mention the establishment clause, but then neglect the prohibition clause, to support the idea that government "not allow religious schools to corrupt the minds of the youth ". That's a bit one-sided. If you want to improve public education the United States, abolish the US Department of Education. The US Department of Education employs no teachers, operates no schools, and teaches no students. It merely mandates extra-educational programs to advance the political agendas of whoever happens to be in charge of it at the time.

Posted by: Jenny Manyteeth on 2010-07-21, 22:54:55

Ban social promotion. Children need to master the material in one grade before progressing to the next. Parents are the final arbiter; no free society can claim the title if it disallows private education and/ or homeschooling. We don't need to move the US to complete secularism; it would, in fact, be a bad thing. One of the reasons why liberals/ socialists/ communists are so dangerous to a free society is that they believe that human society can be made perfect. To that end, they try to ban things they think are bad (trans fat, salt, free enterprise) and encourage things they think are good (green jobs: mythical, but Good). America was most successful when she was most free. We don't need equality of results, we have, under the Constitution, the right of equal opportunity. The current moronic government needs to STFU and get out of the way. Religious persons and intelligent atheists know that perfection by humans is not possible; we are fallible.

Posted by: tardebigge on 2010-07-21, 22:57:24

I think that our public schools are suffering from state and federally mandated testing, to the point where the chief focus on any teacher is to make sure each child passes the test. This practice is bad because the teacher is not free to really enrich the curriculum if that would mean that precious time would be taken away from teaching to the test. However, the teacher complies because high test scores look great to a school board, and the teacher is protected. When I was in school, long before this foolish mandated test fiasco was in place, teachers were able to be creative, and could take time to really explore interesting things. Now, teaching has become a chute upon which students slide from test to test. There's no way to get off the chute.

Posted by: Gumball360 on 2010-07-21, 23:00:17

*Sigh*. Creationism corrupts the minds of the youth? Since when did Christianity ever corrupt the minds of anybody? I'm in a public high school. I believe in Creation. Does that make me stupid? Hell no! I had a 4.0 GPA at the end of last year (and I'm in all advanced classes). That makes me smarter than about 95% of my fellow classmates (300+ students in my grade level). From my experience, my classmates that are religious seem to be smarter than those who are not religious, as the religious ones were raised with higher sense of morality and conscience (which keeps them away from drugs and bad role models). I am living proof that Creationism corrupts the minds of no one. That is a lie, plain and simple. EDIT: @Vonnegut I was mainly trying to reply to thinkers like "BADGER THE HORRIBLE!!! " who said that it does dumb people down. And I said the thing about moral-uprightedness (just made up that word :P) because I believe that religious people are generally more concerned with morals simply because they know that someone is always watching them, and that makes them feel guilty about any bad things they might do. Not the case for EVERYBODY though.

Posted by: Pull My Finger on 2010-07-21, 23:01:53

The Wise Owl has a good suggestion. If more successful models are out there, it can't hurt to study them and imitate the parts that are working. Quite frankly, although we should always be suspicious of the suggestion that allowing the government to pick our pockets deeper and throw money at our problems will solve everything, I think this may be a case in which better funding combined with meaningful oversight might actually do the trick. The first thing to do would be to come up with better proposals for what we teach and how we teach it. I don't think the issue is as thorny as we pretend it is. US schools were far better in the days when we were scared as hell of losing the space race with the Russians. We emphasized rote memorization (true, it's often meaningless in-and-of itself - still, memorization skills are not a bad thing, and would be useful if combined with teaching critical thinking and interdisciplinary skills), mathematics, science, and classical learning. Especially the basics - we need to sharpen focus at an early age on doing math on paper, penmanship, grammar, spelling, etc. Our experience has shown us both the value and the limitations of such teaching approaches. I'd like to see a revival of those old parts of the curriculum combined with critical thinking (that is; logical forms, logical fallacies, methodology, and abstract/ hypothetical thinking) and more emphasis on interdisciplinary studies. This requires money, but money is worthless without meaningful oversight. We need to build school boards that share a focus similar to this or all the money in the world won't help a thing.

Posted by: (sassy & tangy) is ar-ar-arrring on 2010-07-21, 23:06:32

It would be simple if we'd stop teaching to the test. There is a charter school here in my very small town. Kids have the same teacher from 1st grade up until 8th. No one 'graduates' any one grade, class sizes are small. Art, music and science are all taught in abundance to everyone. Everything is individualized and the students thrive because of it. Parents are encouraged to be involved in ways that are nearly impossible in a 'normal' public school. Perhaps best of all, it costs no more per student than our current public school system. It's certainly something I'm in favor of. Some of us may want more religious adults. I'd prefer more literate ones.

Posted by: Rave on 2010-07-21, 23:12:40

I go to a private Christian school and they teach evolution and proper science and such. Of course, there are theology classes designed for the religious nuts to shove their propaganda down your throat for 4 years straight (e.g. the class that I had to take last year, Christian Ethics, or the class from the year before: Living Justice and Peace (through being a worshipper of God, that is) *shiver*). The word "Creationism " has never been uttered once. I believe that to better our schools, there would have to be stricter standards as to who can be responsible for teaching our children, more funding (for more, newer books, more class space, etc.), and to keep religion out of the equation. Religious studies should be held on a child's own time, out of the classroom.

Posted by: Trix are for Kids on 2010-07-21, 23:23:03

Would said mandated secular education in the United States teach about our Constitutional right to Freedom of Religion? How do you see your ideology fitting in with the founding principals of our nation?